Reflections on the 5th anniversary of the Royal Commission

Video: Royal Commission reflections with Knowmore’s Aunty Glendra Stubbs and Amanda Whelan

Description: A white screen with text that reads “Reflections on the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse with Aunty Glendra Stubbs, Knowmore’s Elder in Residence, and Amanda Whelan, Director of Client Services” At the bottom of the screen there is a Knowmore logo which reads “Knowmore: free legal help for survivors”.

Description: A purple screen with text that reads “What can you tell us about Knowmore’s role supporting survivors during the Royal Commission?” At the bottom of the screen there is a Knowmore logo which reads “Knowmore: free legal help for survivors”.

Description: Amanda Whelan and Aunty Gelndra Stubbs sitting in front of a blue wall, angled towards each other in order to have a discussion.

Amanda Whelan: I always think that Knowmore had a really unique role in supporting survivors during the commission process, because it was really I think, the first time that you know, truth telling process, like a Royal Commission had really thought through carefully what the whole service system needed to be for people and to have had the foresight, I think, through the Attorney General’s department and broader government to have actually funded a multidisciplinary trauma informed culturally safe legal service, like it was actually, you know, really exciting. And I think the work that was done by our service and and by the people in our service and teams, Auntie Glendra, people that just walked alongside everyone every day. We just got a chance, I think to be part of people sharing their story and coming forward, and being heard and being truthful, they also really needed to understand their legal support options. And that was super important. And then we didn’t kind of know it at the time. But more and more became, we became more and more aware of the legal options that people didn’t have. And so I think that really added that advocacy voice as well to seeing that things like, you know, the Redress Scheme, and things that have come since that there was a real platform of advocacy to build on in that regard as well.

Glendra Stubbs: It’s true, it’s true. It’s been an honor to be part of people’s journey and to hold their hand. Yeah, and walk with them on this journey.

Amanda Whelan: A lot of stories Auntie, a lot of experiences. And I think going out into the prisons was pretty profound for me as well. I’m just realizing how many people were had never had a chance ever to tell their story and had had a lifetime of victimisation, and then incarceration. And were still living with that. And, you know, that was some, but also some of the best work I think we did as a service, even though it was was hard sometimes too.

Glendra Stubbs: And to be part of people’s first time disclosures too because there was a lot of first time disclosures in prison, young ones that have been removed from their family, had gone through the juvenile justice system and ended up in the big house because of trauma that had happened to them. And no one believed him and we believed them.

Amanda Whelan: Sure did.

Description: A purple screen with text that reads “24% of Knowmore’s clients during the Royal Commission identified as Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander peoples. What do you think Knowmore offered that encouraged these survivors to access our service?” At the bottom of the screen there is a Knowmore logo which reads “Knowmore: free legal help for survivors”.

Description: Amanda Whelan and Aunty Gelndra Stubbs sitting in front of a blue wall, angled towards each other in order to have a discussion.

Glendra Stubbs: Well, I think, you know, both myself and Dean come with a whole heap of credibility in communities. We’ve both done no harm in jobs that we’ve done, and made a difference. And I think when you have a male and a female worker that have credibility, and and the community trust, people are much happier to, to be part of that journey with us. So they did, you know, hadn’t been harmed by us in the past. And we’ve both done a lot of work in communities. So they trusted us that they would also not be harmed when they told you most deepest secrets.

Amanda Whelan: I think there’s probably a few things that come to mind with that. And I can talk about, I suppose what my experience was of how the Royal Commission worked and the reasons that, that that was hugely successful on lots of levels. But I think as well, what we’ve seen with with this particular Royal Commission was right from the get go people just they trusted in it, and it had the complete confidence of survivors and the broader community really early on, and they never lost that. And I’ve often thought about why that was. I think there was incredible leadership from all of the commissioners and there was a way that the commission itself was structured. So the process of, I think having individual you know, private sessions for people so that they knew that they could be safe and, and heard and share their experiences and be believed was hugely powerful. And, you know, obviously, you know, the public hearings and the research. So the structure itself of the commission was, I think, incredible. But we also had a chance to build a broader approach and service system that was truly trauma informed from the ground up and all of our services together to also sort of spoke a bit of a common language around that I think we’re all really committed to the same things with people. But maybe, Auntie, maybe you can talk about how people felt about coming forward, because it just, the floodgates opened, didn’t they?

Description: A purple screen with text that reads “What do you think it was about the Royal Commission’s way of working that encouraged so many survivors to come forward?” At the bottom of the screen there is a Knowmore logo which reads “Knowmore: free legal help for survivors”.

Description: Amanda Whelan and Aunty Gelndra Stubbs sitting in front of a blue wall, angled towards each other in order to have a discussion.

Glendra Stubbs: They opened from day one. And I think, you know, what, what I think, was really important that everybody got a chance, didn’t matter, if you had no literacy or numeracy skills, you could draw a painting, you could, you know, like, have someone support you, you could get someone to write something, there was different ways of getting what you wanted to say, and to be included out there. So you didn’t have to do the public hearing. Like, I know, somebody who did artwork and sent it in, and somebody wrote a little story about what that artwork meant. And it was really profound. And like you said, about the commissioners, they were really respectful. You know, like, I remember when, when the commissioner went to the Kinchela boys. And, you know, they were met with a whole lot of hostilities, but they still went, they turned up. And, and, you know, they were brave, to sometimes go into places that they were met with hostilities.

Description: A purple screen with text that reads “What do you think are the most meaningful changes for survivors that have come out of the Royal Commission?” At the bottom of the screen there is a Knowmore logo which reads “Knowmore: free legal help for survivors”.

Description: Amanda Whelan and Aunty Gelndra Stubbs sitting in front of a blue wall, angled towards each other in order to have a discussion.

Glendra Stubbs: Well, I think, for Aboriginal people that the Royal Commission is looking at, looked at the place that removing children has played in the destruction of families and cultures. So I think that that was one of the one of the recommendations that you know, supporting families to stay together. And for me, that is really important that that was, was honored. That you know, you can’t, you know, you take people from their families, because you think they’ve been abused, and then they get sexually abused in institutions, you know, put the resources into the families to stay together. I think they learnt that lesson. That our out of homecare system hasn’t met the needs of the children that it’s supposed to be protecting in lots of cases.

Amanda Whelan: And there’s probably lots of things that you could say, one of the things that and I’m sure Auntie, you’ve seen this as well, but just how much more believed people are now when they express that, you know, something like that might have happened to them. You know, we think about how long it takes people to disclose for the first time and as a community now, there’s so much more acceptance of even though it’s a terrible thing that it happens in the first place. But, you know, it said, there’s so much more voice now for survivors of all kinds. And I think the Royal Commission really helped shine a light on that and also make it something that people saw as a, as a strength in, in sharing those experiences rather than something to be ashamed of. So, I think that’s been a huge shift, that you know, kind of a groundswell that we’ve seen at a community level as well. Certainly, you know, you can look at recommendations around criminal justice reform, we’ve seen statutes of limitations, you know, shift. We’ve seen redress schemes, where there’s, there’s all sorts of things that have happened. But I, I often go back to what what might survivors say and I, and I think it starts with what that commission was there for in the first place, which was a place for people to come forward and share what had happened to them and be believed and…

Glendra Stubbs: I think being believed is the, is the big …big, big thing that resonates in people’s heart. You know, because for some people, it was the first time they were believed and that gave them strength. Because I think, you know, the people that are the survivors are the strongest people I know. And you know, can be like, you know that 87 year old who, in that public forum, said “I just want people to know what happened.” And his dear wife said, “I always knew there was something wrong but “I just didn’t know what it was,” yeah and he was 87. And felt brave enough to be able to say something at 87, that, you know, just shows the strength. And to hold that all in and hold that pain in and it probably affected their relationship.

Amanda Whelan: I always remember too how often people would say, “I don’t ever want this to happen to another child.”

Glendra Stubbs: Exactly

Amanda Whelan: And you know, just to deeply understand that motivation in people about, you know, that they weren’t just sharing their experiences for themselves. And that’s important to do that. But also, because they just had so much hope. And will, that it didn’t happen to another child, like it happened to them. And I feel like that’s, you know, it’s such an important thing to remember about survivors of child sexual abuse and what they want for others.

Glendra Stubbs: Yeah exactly, they all said that. They all said that.

Description: A purple screen with text that reads What more needs to be done to help survivors get the healing and support they need?” At the bottom of the screen there is a Knowmore logo which reads “Knowmore: free legal help for survivors”.

Description: Amanda Whelan and Aunty Gelndra Stubbs sitting in front of a blue wall, angled towards each other in order to have a discussion.

Glendra Stubbs: I think that needs to be answered by the survivors. You know, I think they know what’s best for them. And I think, you know, one in three people have been affected by childhood sexual abuse, it’ll be lots of recommendations.

Amanda Whelan: I agree with that, I think it’s still very prescribed about you know, and we still have particular ways of setting up services and providing them but, you know, I think we’re getting better at that, then I’m sure that, you know, I think survivors would like much more of a voice in how services are built and how they’re provided. And that’s certainly something that, you know, normal feels really, like committed to as well. But I think there has been a lot, that’s, that’s, that’s better. But there’s still so much to do, and probably on lots of different fronts. And, you know, I think, you know, that it shouldn’t be, it shouldn’t be hard to get to get help that you need, through the course of your life. Recovery is not a linear process, you need to maybe move in and out of, you know, healing and support and, you know, that still feels quite hard for people to navigate and, and, and it shouldn’t be and, and I think what you’re saying Auntie people need to be empowered to, to lead that for themselves.

Glendra Stubbs: One thing that I’d like to see is a 24 hour line that people that have… can ring and have a yarn to just an Auntie or, or someone else it’s, you know, knows their story, knows their journey, because these things don’t finish at 5 o’clock. You know, this, you know, 3 o’clock in the morning, we all know what goes through our heads at 3 o’clock in the morning, and there’s no one to talk to. That’s what I think, you know, would be really something that would, you know, make me very happy if we could have, you know, like me, we’ve got other services that, that you know, that they’re not the, I mean, you know, this is a bit you know, in our pockets, but you know, we are really good at what we do at Knowmore. We are really good at what we do. We’ve got great people, great staff, doing a really difficult job and no one’s… no one is here, unless they’re 100% committed for the clients and only for the clients.

Amanda Whelan: Good on you Auntie. I think as well that some of the recommendations that the Royal Commission made, you know, in Volume 9 and other places, but really saying that what people most needed as well was proper wraparound services that were holistic in nature and you know that I’m not sure necessarily that we’re quite there. You know, like asking people to navigate the silos of how things are set up and run is really hard. And also too, and auntie will be able to comment on this better than I, and I think that’s what he started out by sort of talking about too Auntie but… You know, there’s nowhere near the amount of flexibility that there should be for different ways of healing, particularly for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander survivors. And yeah, yeah,

Glendra Stubbs: We’ll put that in our submission list 24 hour on-call Auntie and Uncles

Amanda Whelan: and that healing, like you said, healing looks different for every single person and you should be able to have more of a say, I think, in how you navigate that.

Glendra Stubbs: Yeah, sometimes just getting together with with people that have your shared experiences it what you need too, you know a barbecue, sausage sizzle.

Amanda Whelan: Absolutely. And there’s such power in peer support. And I feel like you know, there’s some amazing services out there that, you know, have been doing that work for years and survivor led advocacy groups and support groups and you know, we forget that you know, we’re very recent to this work and there’s so many survivors that were you know, were demanding that their voices be heard way before there were commissions and they knew what we’re still figuring out which is that peer support is so critical. What you need when you’ve been removed from your family, removed from the community mistreated in that way. There’s so much healing comes from creating a new community. And that’s some something that I think we need to value more, as well.

Description: A white screen with text that reads “To share your reflections on the Royal Commission with us please visit Knowmore.org.au/survivors-reflections-on-the-royal-commission/” At the bottom of the screen there is a Knowmore logo which reads “Knowmore: free legal help for survivors”.

Description: A purple screen with text that reads “To receive free legal advice and support please contact us at 1800 605 762 | Knowmore.org.au” At the bottom of the screen there is a Knowmore logo which reads “Knowmore: free legal help for survivors”.